Aoe vs bif blades

[Oneangel]

Aoe compared to single target dd gems do damage to multiple targets at a lower max damage per target and at a higher mana/energy cost. However , it does not bypass a taunt and whether the gem lands is a question of the attackers cnc + bonuses/skills vs the taunting players cnt + bonuses/skills. There are no procs from landing a dd, and it is not possible to bypass the defence of the opposing taunting player.

Bif blades avoid the taunting player altogether, meaning that the attackers stats/skills are now vs the defence of the non taunting player. Proc chance is also not reduced with big blades so that chance to stun 1 player is doubled (since can hit 2 targets at 1 time). Once in a stun lock, you can't use gems, ca or do anything until either the stun lock is broken or you are killed.

So why does this matter?

Even starting with 3 anti stun gems, it is easy enough to shatter 3 on 1 toon...stun lock them then either polish the team off 3 v 2 or wait for shatter to cooldown and repeat the process.

So how to counter this?

Apocalypse is out of the question as stun lock is the counter for apocalypse users. Shatter is of very limited use since there are 5 ranks of big blades that can be used in a pouch and its easy to draw another. Draining energy by gems is no longer possible since the tick rate was halved and you can regen enough energy for a bif blade (especially low rank ones) in less time than the drain tick. Decamp energy auras and energy theft auras have different reasons why they don't compete but all comes down to how easy it is to sustain a low rank bif blade. Caster using a taunt or 2 in pouch to get bif users off them? Well that's a nice idea but u can't cast taunts using angelic and you can't cast taunts while being stun locked.

What does this mean for pure tanks or healers or aoe casters?

This is the point where I'm at a loss...for me I am rebuilding with a counter in mind that I think can compete, but not as a healer. Anyone have any suggestions I would love to hear them.

[Oneangel]

Sorry...spellcheck turned biff blades to big blades. Can't edit the title of the thread.

[flipynifty]

What big blade? Like 2h slashers?

[>.>]

Lets assume it is a tank/healer (or caster)/AoE DDr. Naturally they target the tank to hit the healer and dps. You said they could shatter all of the stoics on ONE person that leaves the other person able to draw and use apoco's as needed. They can just throw one into their normal pouch and replace a heavy gem with it. Since it is blue you have a high chance of draw another gem as it is played anyway so draw speed shouldn't be affected and it is there when you need it. Additionally you could have the non perma stunned player taunt to get the heat off the stunned player and you can just bounce taunts around the team. 99% of nod uses regen anyway so it should be common place to bounce taunts since everyone can take a hit or two now.

You are also assuming the best conditions someone having all 5 ranks of the gem and having 4 of each, stuns procing every hit, assuming that you will be completely stunlocked for the entirety of the fight which is highly unlikely.

[Oneangel]

Using apo wipes all anti stuns, and even glitch says stun lock is the best counter to apo using teams but lets say you use apo anyway. If you then don't redraw anti stuns before they redraw bif blade, you are in a worse situation than before apo. Taunting from the non stun locked caster won't take the heat off the stun locked player, only take the heat off the non stun locked caster. Yes you might get a second or 2 here and there to break the stun lock, but lets just say there are 2 bm's using bif blade, that is 8 lots of 20% chance to stun every attack. 0.8 * 0.8 (8) = 0.167. So basically 85% chance to stun at least someone for 4 secs.

[>.>]

During the time of no stoics and biff blades your team can try to kill one of the members of the team constantly apocoing as you get them since as a caster it affects you little other than flare up, if you bother to use it, and angelic. But without them having biff blades due to the apocos you don't need the angelics since your tank, assuming he has decent deft and replay, will be tearing through taunts apoco or not.

Pretty much my strat would be to apoco bomb them constantly and keep the dps up until you can kill one of their members. Having an apoco or two or three in a pouch would be able to do that and would cost you little to use as a caster and allows you to wipe all gems from play which is a good strategy against many teams. Save your shatters for the initial start (or put apoco in the starting slot and use at you discretion) or for the dry spells of no apoco draw.

[Oneangel]

I'm a bit dubious about the efficacy of that strategy but I'm not one to judge without giving it a fair go, and I must admit I haven't tried that as I dismissed it on purely theoretical basis. I will give it a try and let you know how it goes

An thank you for taking the time to give advice...is much appreciated

[>.>]

It may take some tweaking to your strategy but im sure once you get the flow down you should do well.

[SiSiX]

...just a fading, memory...

[Huggles]

AOEs aren't based on the taunting player. This was changed over a year ago. Your complaints are baseless.

[SiSiX]

...just a fading, memory...

[SiSiX]

...just a fading, memory...

[Glitchless]

We're aware of this and it's something to be looked at after this season has ended.

[devil]

does that mean that if the tank uses Do Unto, Discourage Jeweling, and Incidental Reflection that would be effective way of protecting an arena team from aoe dd gems?

[Oneangel]

Originally Posted by Huggles

AOEs aren't based on the taunting player. This was changed over a year ago. Your complaints are baseless.

This is a discussion, I didn't complain merely invited better strategists than me to be involved and give a little advice. Your contribution is unhelpful, your post is baseless.

[SiSiX]

...just a fading, memory...

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Oneangel

However , it does not bypass a taunt and whether the gem lands is a question of the attackers cnc + bonuses/skills vs the taunting players cnt + bonuses/skills. There are no procs from landing a dd, and it is not possible to bypass the defence of the opposing taunting player.

Originally Posted by Oneangel

This is a discussion, I didn't complain merely invited better strategists than me to be involved and give a little advice. Your contribution is unhelpful, your post is baseless.

I gave you advice. That advice was that your entire complaint about DD being underpowered in arena in comparison to bifurcated blade was based on an incorrect understanding of how the game works.

[Oneangel]

So please explain what part I am misunderstanding...that woul be useful for sure.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Oneangel

So please explain what part I am misunderstanding...that woul be useful for sure.

You said that AOEs do damage and are resisted based on the taunting tank's CNT and skills, which is untrue. AOE DDs are treated as separate attacks for each player. Sisix quoted the thread that explains this.

Sorry for being mean. I tend to do that when people ask for buffs based on incorrect assumptions.

[>.>]

Where exactly is the patch saying it was changed because If that was true then my anti caster gems would not work as well as they did for my team 2 arena seasons ago (around last christmas so less than a year).