Aoe vs bif blades

[Excellence]

Sisix, I love you. You said everything I wanted to say in such nice way. Glad someone else relates to what I'm saying. Nibbles, as I stated earlier few times in pm's, your ideas are great in theory and all, but you have to try them in practice, rather than blindly defend them without actually properly checking how it works in practice

[Master]

You silly rabbits... The typical 2 dot casters and 1tanker team is destroying the top biff aura team with ease atm... But OMG its so OP right?

Here is a run down for you...

Thorin*** ALL skills CAPPED, AutoShooting, t2 weasle, 1100 cnt, Yes 1100 CNT.... 2x t6 BC arms and a pally teamate with capped resist skills using resist magic gems.... even still dotters shred me apart LONG before damage bonus even kicks in.

Oh and this is with over 25k HP as well.


SO please for the love of god, stop the crying

[Huggles]

Six the 10℅ you mentioned was already included. Crush stuns with smash for 4s. Intimidate stuns with whips for 2 seconds or 4 with 100 stalking. Only the whip attack, not the pet attack, triggers intimidate (though a pet must be equipped on the same side as the whip in order for it to work.

Also, 10℅ stun chance per strike x65% accuracy is 6.5℅ stun per strike, as I said. With LoD and 100 skills, that means 2.5 strikes per attack, so 16%.

And Nikola?aa, my team is 2x bifurcated LoD whippers and a Tomahammer tank with bifurcated. We never see these constant stunlocks you mention. Perhaps they occur less when you fight teams who focus on setting up their defense properly. Yes, it is likely that you will spend 30-40% of the time being stunned against 2-3 bifurcated opponents, but that is kind of the only thing crush has going for it. If you want to Nerf intimidate/stalking, I think that would make sense, considering the fact that whips have other useful attributes. But it is unfair to come to the forums with your underskiled under geared poorly distributed build and then say that stuns are too strong against you.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Nikolaaa

it is more likely that you are stun-locked during those fights rather than not

.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Master

You silly rabbits... The typical 2 dot casters and 1tanker team is destroying the top biff aura team with ease atm... But OMG its so OP right?

Here is a run down for you...

Thorin*** ALL skills CAPPED, AutoShooting, t2 weasle, 1100 cnt, Yes 1100 CNT.... 2x t6 BC arms and a pally teamate with capped resist skills using resist magic gems.... even still dotters shred me apart LONG before damage bonus even kicks in.

Oh and this is with over 25k HP as well.


SO please for the love of god, stop the crying

^ HK tears through my capped def skills, pally primary/max aura skills/max resist auras just by himself, though that's expected when I only have 500 CNT.

[Oneangel]

Seeing as everyone talking in this thread will have all skills capped I don't think that's much of a muchness. Also I would agree that 2 dot 1 tank is still the most devastating combo and since me jay and adino did the bif blade team last season I do get that it's hard to make that setup work and that we didn't get it right and it's only this season that done well that it's come up as a viable strategy. The thread is more about aoe and what a tank can do when facing this tactic. For example if thorin was facing a team where all 3 opponents used split/bif and could all tank/cross taunt then even with his tier 6 gear and billion def stats he would be completely bypassed which seems a bit crazy that a few gems could bypass him and he would be irrelevant until shatters or apo.

[Excellence]

My underskilled and undergeared build? Ok, yea, well I guess having all skills at 100 is underskilled today. And I didn't say that bif is unbeatable or anything, I said there were few ways of countering it but that you are likely to be stun-locked most of the fight unless you get 4 stoics and apocs in pouch. And even then end up being stunned a lot, but yea I guess it's not ok to come whine in here since I try not to do that usually.

[Brick]

Now, now Opri; no need to be quite so hostile I personally feel it's quite an ingenious idea to try and stunlock a team into submission, and it's one that NMF and Nem pulled off great last season and again this season. Whilst I do agree that it's not a constant lock, against a caster based teams it's normally long enough to enable them to just take the caster team into the damage bonus and in turn pummel them in from there, since quite obviously; it's extremely hard for either a DD user or a DoTer to get damage out efficiently enough to kill the opposing team. I accept your general point that it's not an infinite cycle, but it's much more the fact that it becomes extremely problematic when you're locked up for even 50% of the fight without a huge variety of ways to deal with it.
You trying to infer we have sucky defences is kinda silly too. As a caster you have a very limited amount of room for extra stats after you get the general ~700 bench mark for cnc and enough PRe or MRe to sustain your given gems. The current reg meta has come about since it's way, way easier to just stick 350 odd points into reg and get a constant source of healing for very little as opposed to wasting your time and sticking those points into your def stats which will help you resist/parry more a little more, but give no healing so effectively just allow you to sit there and slowly die.
You're welcome to slate me, and I still personally think this is a pretty clever strategy. I'm still interested in what exactly the alternative to smash glitch had in mind

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Oneangel

Seeing as everyone talking in this thread will have all skills capped I don't think that's much of a muchness. Also I would agree that 2 dot 1 tank is still the most devastating combo and since me jay and adino did the bif blade team last season I do get that it's hard to make that setup work and that we didn't get it right and it's only this season that done well that it's come up as a viable strategy. The thread is more about aoe and what a tank can do when facing this tactic. For example if thorin was facing a team where all 3 opponents used split/bif and could all tank/cross taunt then even with his tier 6 gear and billion def stats he would be completely bypassed which seems a bit crazy that a few gems could bypass him and he would be irrelevant until shatters or apo.

A fair point, but there have always been one or two gems that completely change the way arena works. It was that way for rabid, and then for sacrigenesis. To counter a bifurcated team, a tank needs to be able to switch to a semi-DPS suit, while still being able to survive long enough to switch back to a tank setup in case the enemies drop bifurcated and go 3x full dps on him.

Whether or not Glitchless intended it, you must sometimes adjust your strategy mid-battle, not just mid-season, when it comes to arena.

[Huggles]

Bifurcated cross taunt counter: have your tank switch to a DoT suit. With raiden's sleeves, ebonbone staff, and stat runes, it is quite possible.

My build is 139/1/140/60 and I would have enough cnc to cast effectively as well as enough mre and pre to regen. Of course, this requires exceptional timing and heavy burst dot casting before your taunts wear off and you become the target of enemy stuns.

[>.>]

and how many clans use stat runes? how many tanks can afford a specific set up for only 1 type of team? A lot of your ideas are good on paper, yes it COULD work, but in reality not everyone is able to do it.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by >.>

and how many clans use stat runes? how many tanks can afford a specific set up for only 1 type of team? A lot of your ideas are good on paper, yes it COULD work, but in reality not everyone is able to do it.

You need to have setups that cover all teams. There's no cookie cutter tank that beats everything. That might mean taking off the shield and using whip/hammer or whip/whip with 2 cuddlebugs to try to get that fabled stunlock or keeping it on and autoshooting or maybe using mana/energy destruction gems.

Either way you can't throw on a shield with 2 timmies and stack agi/cnt and reg and think that will cover everything. It might, but not as well as adapting to each situation with the best countertactic.

It's expensive but oh well.

[Oneangel]

Switching from shield using tank to caster dotter costs 5 secs stun, to then go back to tank from that costs a 20 sec stun. It's expensive and as far as dps goes a 5 or 20 second pause goes, not overly effective. I'm all for having to switch things up for arena and have several full lg suits for doing so as will most people in arena these days, but going from tank to dps is quite some ask as regard gem/rune/suit switching and switching 3 things in a row takes time...enough time to get your team mates into trouble anyway. Having said that, some kind of switching things up is gonna be useful.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Oneangel

Switching from shield using tank to caster dotter costs 5 secs stun, to then go back to tank from that costs a 20 sec stun. It's expensive and as far as dps goes a 5 or 20 second pause goes, not overly effective. I'm all for having to switch things up for arena and have several full lg suits for doing so as will most people in arena these days, but going from tank to dps is quite some ask as regard gem/rune/suit switching and switching 3 things in a row takes time...enough time to get your team mates into trouble anyway. Having said that, some kind of switching things up is gonna be useful.

Yeah you'd have to do something like shield, then miti crusher, and then staff so you don't get stunned with the staff suit on

[devil]

been trying out 2h tanking using miti crusher for a while now and while it cant compete vs a shield for pure defense it does allow a noticeable dps increase wether it be using the 2h or like my current build making use of aerial dominion skill for potential burst dps