Aoe vs bif blades

[adino]

Originally Posted by Huggles

You said that AOEs do damage and are resisted based on the taunting tank's CNT and skills, which is untrue. AOE DDs are treated as separate attacks for each player. Sisix quoted the thread that explains this.

Sorry for being mean. I tend to do that when people ask for buffs based on incorrect assumptions.

You should go back and reread the post from Sisix. It proved her point not yours. Also, I can't link it from my phone but if you look under "Guides and helps" there is a question asked by Hoodrat about how split shaft works. Glitch specifically says it does not work like aoe's but are separate attacks.

[Glitchless]

Both arguing sides seem to be partially correct.

This misunderstanding in this thread is coming from the fact that AoE DDs, if you read the quote provided by SiSiX which is accurate, are only checked against the initial target for some things such as anti-gem triggers (Do Unto, Incidental Reflection, Discourage Jeweling), then they are split into individual attacks and compared against each defender on an individual basis for other things such as resists, blocks, growls, etc.

[adino]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Killda]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Both arguing sides seem to be partially correct.

This misunderstanding in this thread is coming from the fact that AoE DDs, if you read the quote provided by SiSiX which is accurate, are only checked against the initial target for some things such as anti-gem triggers (Do Unto, Incidental Reflection, Discourage Jeweling), then they are split into individual attacks and compared against each defender on an individual basis for other things such as resists, blocks, growls, etc.

Glitch can you please clarify the following:

1. if Incidental Reflection or Discourage Jeweling is triggered on the tank then the aoe effect simply stopped and wont go to all defenders,
BUT
(this is the part i would like to clarify)
2. if do unto gem is triggered, then the aoe effect still hit the tank, and therefore is still applied to all defenders

I want to know if these 2 statements are true?
Thanks if you could help clarify.

[>.>]

Tis true

[Glitchless]

Yes.

[Oneangel]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Both arguing sides seem to be partially correct.

This misunderstanding in this thread is coming from the fact that AoE DDs, if you read the quote provided by SiSiX which is accurate, are only checked against the initial target for some things such as anti-gem triggers (Do Unto, Incidental Reflection, Discourage Jeweling), then they are split into individual attacks and compared against each defender on an individual basis for other things such as resists, blocks, growls, etc.

Does this mean that if an aoe is resisted by a taunting tank that it can still do damage to the rest of the team?

[Glitchless]

An AoE DD, yes.
An AoE DoT, no.

[Master]

My mind just exploded.

[Sanluciferr]

omg mine too! DD Aoes are terrible!!! and Aoe melees are overpowered and they can stun lock people no matter what!

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

omg mine too! DD Aoes are terrible!!! and Aoe melees are overpowered and they can stun lock people no matter what!

Agreed! Everyone has 100% accuracy and the 20% stun happens 100% of the time! Also parry doesn't work!

[Sanluciferr]

Originally Posted by Huggles

Agreed! Everyone has 100% accuracy and the 20% stun happens 100% of the time! Also parry doesn't work!

No thats not 100% true, parry does work but maybe u are using a staff, parry with staff never works! and u dont stun 100% of the times, just 20% of the times is enough to stun lock 2 people in arena.

[Excellence]

Be sarcastic as much as you want, but 20% to stun is not small at all, and most people do end up being stun-locked in arena fights against bms using biff blades. There are few ways of countering it and all but still, it is more likely that you are stun-locked during those fights rather than not

[Oneangel]

This has been really interesting, thank you for all the feedback (including huggles as without his somewhat belligerent responses we wouldn't have had such an interesting debate, and he did have some valid points). I am now thoroughly confused about the role of the tank in modern arena though and though I don't think aoe is necessarily underpowered, it certainly has its weaknesses and will be very strong vs some setups and quite useless vs others. Casters are weak vs melee as they have a reduced parry chance and if a caster was to have agi/cnt at the lvl where they could parry often enough to be effective then they would have to sacrifice either their int/cnc making them not very effective as dps or to reduce their hp/mana/reg to the point where they can be easily drained or totally reliant on a healer to stop them loosing all their hp too fast. Despite this, I don't think aoe dd are the biggest losers in this, but the tanks. A gem that completely bypasses a toon and makes them redundant until that gem is removed will mean every tank facing big blades/split shaft needs a plan b where they suddenly have to either become a healer to help their team mates survive and throw a few apo to break the spell, or become a dps source to the point where the opposition needs to target them to stop their damage. Or they could just sit there and watch the fight go on around them and hope their team mates can break the split/biff so they can play again. Maybe this just makes things more interesting, I dunno, just rambling now...

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Nikolaaa

Be sarcastic as much as you want, but 20% to stun is not small at all, and most people do end up being stun-locked in arena fights against bms using biff blades. There are few ways of countering it and all but still, it is more likely that you are stun-locked during those fights rather than not

I typo'd actually. It's a 10% chance for Whips, 1H Crush, and Staves to stun.

[Excellence]

W/e, still get stunned a lot most of the fights :P

[Huggles]

6.4% chance per weapon swing (Calculated using 80% hit chance, 20% parry chance, and 10% stun chance)
avg swings per atk = 2.51004
0.16064256
16% chance per attack to stun for 4 seconds, LoD has 4 second delay (approx)
stunlock = consecutive stuns
0.025806032
2.6% chance of 2 consecutive
0.004145547
0.4% chance of 3 consecutive

and now assuming two enemies (bifurcated)
0.295479088
29.5% chance for one of the attacks to stun
0.087307891
8.7% chance for 2 consecutive stuns
0.025797656
2.6% chance for 3 consecutive stuns

Please, explain to me how you are getting 'stunlocked every fight' when the effect in question occurs 8.7% of the time.

Fun facts:

DoTs have a 20% chance for a 3 second daze with a delay of less than .5 seconds.

Staff users can stun and use bifurcated.

You can put points into dex and agi to avoid melee hits more.

Paladins need a buff.

[Excellence]

Instead of spreading your math skills get in arena and see how you can get stun-locked

[Excellence]

Don't forget whips swing quickly, and it doesn't have to be 2 consecutive attacks. It's enough that every 2nd or 3rd stuns me and I wont be able to cast as half as good as I potentially could. But it's pointless to argue with you since you aren't really testing anything just saying random numbers which might make sense to you but in practice often don't

[SiSiX]

...just a fading, memory...