Useful Durability Knowledge

[Huggles]

You will have 18 HP at level 71 with 1 Dur. Also, you can't go below 1. Also I circled gold instead of HP for some reason.
I think this number will help us determine the Dur formula. Please help us by experimenting with Dur and posting your Dur, HP, and level. Please remember to subtract tempers!

[Darkdingus]

It seems health is increased by level, then multiplied by Dur somehow. What we now need is a way to know how much health a level 35-36 (preferably 36, so we can split 35 increments) character has with 1 Dur, and we'd at least know how much level affects Dur, and then have a level 85 corroborate if the increase by level is linear or exponential.

That's it, we need 3 people. Unfortunately, I don't login very often nowadays, but if the data is gathered, I can volunteer to find working formulas.

Another good thing: One could assume that the way the stats' effects are determined basically the same way. If we can actually manage to find how Dur's effects vary over the course of a few hundred stat points (101, 201, 301, possibly 401), we could actually manage to find out what the ACTUAL difference between 300 and 400 in a single stat is, at least percentage-wise. We won't know exactly how each secondary stat (accuracy, damage...) is affected, but we'll at least have a clue.
- The best way to find this out would probably be testing Energy and/or Mana after testing Durability, as we have numbered evidence for those three.

As an additional note: Having intermediary points (51, 151, 251, 351) would greatly help in finding an eventual "softcap", something Glitch says doesn't exist, but hey, we never know)

Great find Huggles. Thanks for the great work. Now I just need to find the time to login to the game and give you both the credit and gold due for the effort.

[Makaveliarts]

Curious, how did you get to 1 DUR? I thought you could not go below 50 in any stat?

[Darkdingus]

Originally Posted by Makaveliarts

Curious, how did you get to 1 DUR? I thought you could not go below 50 in any stat?

You can, but are completely unable to move or do anything else. Useful for testing purposes only.

[RogueTigeR]

dunno if this will help:

zero tempers (naked atm)

286 Dur
Lvl. 85
4405 HP

[Thomas Jordan]

Naked:

292 Dur
Lvl 85
4490 HP

[Gurnison]

Get gear with:

L Arm +1 dur
R Arm +2
L Leg +4
R Leg +8
Helm +16
Chest +32

Strip, then equip them in different combinations to get dur increments of 0-63. With archery, weapons, shields, and pots you can go a lot higher.

For those who don't know how this works, here's an example:

+1 dur
equip L Arm

+2 dur
R Arm

+3 dur
L & R Arms

+4 dur
L Leg

+5 dur
L Leg, L Arm

+6 dur
L Leg, R Arm

+7 dur
L Leg, R Arm, L Arm

etc.

Edit: I just realized stat enhancement might screw up the count, so some weird combinations might be needed.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by Makaveliarts

Curious, how did you get to 1 DUR? I thought you could not go below 50 in any stat?

I drank a r12 Dur potion (82 dur). Then I equipped gear until my dur was 83. It would not go below 83 even though it should have been 79 (to prevent me from going into negatives). Then i drank an AC potion and my dur went to 1.

Btw, this experiment cost me around 200k for stones and mats, potions, gear, and raising suiting, and I'm not sure how much Rogue spent on it. Also I had to delevel mitigated penalties to 0.

However I think solving for 1 Dur was very important in solving for dur, and it shows how much of an effect dur has.

Once I collect a reasonable amount of data I will try to find a math person who knows how to do math to do the math.

Thank you everyone who has posted their data!

Also, any capped player who has reasonably high base dur and would like to help, please post here. I would be willing to cover the cost of redisting stats so that we could see the effects of dur in increments of 3 on a level 85. This would also be very important in solving for it.

[Tsurguy]

Couldn't you have just like I dunno made a new char level def once and put 1 point in dur?

[concede]

LVL. 85

Dur: 152
HP: 2447

[Darkdingus]

Dur: 100
HP: 1671

Dur: 152
HP: 2447

Dur: 264
HP: 4093

Dur: 265
HP: 4107

Dur: 266
HP: 4121

Dur: 276
HP: 4263

Dur: 286
HP: 4405

Dur: 292
HP: 4490

Dur: 310
HP: 4743

Gotta love those high level player data. This makes it so level is irrelevant for now. Because if we manage to find the formula for this level, then every level will be open.

I'm making a graph for now, but I'll certainly need more data. Keep it coming.

Special thanks to Con for such a low Dur score. It REALLY helps finding such things. For this purpose, I think I'll untrain my def stats and raise them one by one, logging off/in every time I place a point or two in Dur. It should cost A LOT less than having to find enchants.
Gurnison's idea is good, but instead of POSITIVE Dur stats (which are easy to find/reproduce by untraining), I'd use NEGATIVE. (-1, -2, -4, -8, -16, -32)

In fact, while retraining, if I train everything into Dur, but subsequently equip two -2 Dur items (maxed out Mit Pen means it downs to two -1 items). I should have every possible interval between 140 levels of full Dur training (meaning from 100 to 520)

I won't have any time to do this in the next few days, but if anyone is up for the task before I start doing it, say so here and save my nerves.

[chloe]

100 dur
Lvl. 85
HP: 1671

[beetdabrat]

Lvl: 85
Dur: 265
HP: 4107

Dur: 276
HP: 4263

Beet Da Brat

[Gurnison]

Originally Posted by Darkdingus

What we now need is a way to know how much health a level 35-36 (preferably 36, so we can split 35 increments) character has with 1 Dur, and we'd at least know how much level affects Dur, and then have a level 85 corroborate if the increase by level is linear or exponential.

HP per level is definitely not linear. At low levels it's in the neighborhood of 20-22 HP per level and at mid-levels it's around 35-40 per level, and near cap is over 50 per level.

Also, you can't assume there is a single formula that's used. It could be stepped with different formulas within different ranges. (I'm pretty sure some CAs do that but I'd have to double check)

For that matter you can't assume there is a formula at all. It could be a set of tables.

Anyway, I'll be posting a large amount of data later tonight or tomorrow. I should have close to 200 samples (mostly very low level but it still gives info).

[Darkdingus]

Originally Posted by Gurnison

It could be a set of tables.

Right, but this would suggest softcaps of sorts. If it is, though, it'll easily be spotted given enough training.

[Gurnison]

I was planning on getting some more data but I got tired of it for now. Maybe more later. This is enough to get some basic information. BTW, you should be able to import this into a spreadsheet as a space delimited file.

Level Dur HP
1 88 20
1 89 21
1 90 22
1 91 23
1 92 25
1 93 26
1 94 27
1 95 28
1 96 29
1 97 30
1 98 32
1 99 33
1 100 34
1 101 35
1 102 36
1 103 37
1 104 39
1 105 40
1 106 41
1 107 42
1 108 43
1 109 45
1 110 46
1 111 47
1 112 48
1 113 49
1 114 50

2 100 53
2 103 57
2 104 59
2 105 60
2 106 62
2 110 67
2 113 71
2 114 72

3 100 73

4 100 92
4 101 94

5 100 112
5 101 114
5 102 116
5 103 117

6 98 127
6 99 129
6 100 131
6 101 133
6 102 135
6 105 142
6 106 144
6 107 146
6 108 148
6 112 156
6 113 158
6 114 160
6 115 162
6 116 164
6 117 166
6 120 172
6 121 174
6 122 176
6 123 178
6 124 180
6 130 192
6 131 194
6 132 196

7 99 149
7 100 151
7 101 153
7 102 155
7 103 157
7 104 160
7 109 171
7 110 173
7 118 190
7 119 192
7 120 195
7 121 197
7 127 210
7 128 212

8 105 182
8 106 185
8 129 239
8 130 241

9 106 205
9 107 208
9 108 210
9 121 243
9 122 245

10 117 255
10 118 258

11 108 252
11 109 255

12 111 282
12 112 285
12 132 345
12 133 348
12 138 363
12 139 366
12 149 396

13 125 348
13 127 354

14 119 351
14 120 355
14 145 438
14 146 441

15 119 374
15 120 378
15 121 381
15 122 385
15 123 388

16 126 423
16 127 426
16 128 430

17 136 485
17 138 492

18 147 554
18 148 558
18 149 562
18 150 566
18 151 570
18 153 578

25 128 648

26 136 715
26 138 725
26 140 736
26 142 747

28 133 749
28 134 755

29 151 878
29 155 901

32 192 1248
32 193 1254
32 194 1260
32 195 1266

40 145 1141
40 146 1149
40 149 1171
40 150 1179

62 295 3362
62 296 3373
62 305 3468
62 307 3489
62 316 3584
62 317 3594

80 366 5217

83 310 4637

84 310 4690

85 264 4093
85 266 4121
85 310 4743

[Darkdingus]

Health progression per level is DEFINATELY linear. I can confirm this with pretty much 100% accuracy.

1 100 34
2 100 53
3 100 73
4 100 92
5 100 112
6 100 131
7 100 151
At 100 Dur, it seems stuck somewhere close to 19.5 HP per level.

83 310 4637
84 310 4690
85 310 4743
While at 310, the number is closer to 53 (though I do not have enough raw data to say any more yet)

If the increase was exponential, one would expect the last 3 levels to give a much larger difference in health than the first few, but it doesn't seem to be.

This is actually quite helpful to know. Thanks for the raw data Gurnison. Now that we actually know this, we can make the formulae for every level if we can manage to get it for just one.

The level 1 data isn't quite as significant, but will still be rather useful once we manage to find the formula, because it'll be extremely easy to test with this, especially since we already know from vamping abilities how Nod rounds numbers up.


100 Dur
Level 1: 34
Level 85: 1671
- Final result would be 19,488 health per level (19.5 was rather close, wasn't it?)

This means "base" (or, "level 0") HP is between 14.012 and 15.011

[Darkdingus]

One last thing more data will show me: Does this 15 base health actually get modified by Dur, or is it "hard" and stays on no matter what?
Seeing as 1 Dur leaves a character with 18 health at level 71, we know that the health gained is actually affected by level. This base health might not be (this would mean that at level 71, the first point of Dur grants less than 0.05 health per level, but it's still possible)

[Huggles]

Unfortunately it is impossible to reach 1 Dur at level 1 without overskilling horribly to allow a player to equip gear with a stat total of -100. I had to use 72 Suiting pieces to get the desired effect.

[Darkdingus]

I'm not asking for this much data Huggles.
I'm still glad we actually found out that HP/Level progression is actually linear, and we even know how much it gains per level when at 100 Dur. That was a surprising find.