Recovery - The forgettable stat

[flipynifty]

This is neither really a bug nor an idea, kind of a combination of both.

Recovery is not either a Melee or a Defensive stat. At this point recovery is used for the most part as a negative when stonemakers are creating stones or in my case as an attempt to keep up to other classes as a Regener.

Through many tests (including finding the cap to be 100 health per tick out of combat, which was fixed) It seems recovery is on a rather large sliding scale. It took 600 REG to find out the out of combat healing cap.

If a player were to have STR (melee build) or INT (caster) at such a large number they would be hitting monsters for a VERY significant amount of damage. The same goes with AGI or CNT, if they were 600 it would make a VERY large difference for a defensive character.

However, all the REC stats, boosted that large, provide at the most 120 per tick of healing out of combat (as a regener with class enhancement and class spec at roughly 80) making healing in combat at the most 30 per tick in combat.

It's no wonder this stat can be easily forgotten and with stones, even dropped to 50 when many players finish combat with full health after defeating a monster in 20 seconds.

As probably the premier lover and user of REC I have found that the sliding scale and ratio of healing:REG/PRE/MRE pts make this stat forgettable and something seen as unnessecary and to top it off, Regener class is based upon this stat, making it a forgettable and avoidable class for all.

Speaking with many players over the last year many are in agreeance that the REC stat and the Regener class are both.... poopy.

I do not want a boost for the Regener class, I don't want an invicible 3894593485 per tick healing monster (though that wouldbe cool), what I would suggest is this little used stat Recovery to be boosted and the sliding scale less steep, which would benefit ALL players, and perhaps people may take a second look when considering what stats they don't need.

Thank you for your time, thank you for your hard work, if needed I can provide more numbers and statistics to help in your decision.

Flipynifty

[Dumpsterslut]

I conccur flip. Regeneration is simply a neg dump area for every other class. What is the point of having a stat/class that has no edge whatsoever. The only reason there hasnt been a buff yet is because there aren't 500 regeners asking (whining like other classes) for it. Flipy is the only one I know and a pioneer of sorts in the class. I remember when crafters got together and asked earnestly for some help, somthing happend. Let's hope one voice and years of honest research (not to mention hundreds of dollars irl) is enough to get some kind of recovery boost. In essence the regenner should be the go-to guy for all high level mobs; getting huge regen bonuses, combined with taunts, this class could easily be the most valued as a "meatshield" of sorts to conquer end-game bosses and lengthly war battles alike (although flipy is somwhat of a tank now, regardless of his class most people could acheive this status with any other class and recieve almost the same "edge" , as it were, as him in combat).

Unfourtunately there is only one (im sure you will correct me if im wrong) high lvl regenner at this point. Perhaps we need to ask the main question: "Why is there only ONE capped regenner in game?" we all know the answer.

[Destruction]

Not really the correct place to post this, but I fully agree with this comment. Like dumpsterslut mentioned, why is there only a handful,at best, of regners in this game? Their ability should be altered to better reflect their true nature of recovery, not of "gradual repairment" as things are now.

[flipynifty]

This is more a bug/idea about REC, not regeners (though the two can go hand in hand)

[flipynifty]

Just to add on here, to everyone that asked me "then what would i neg with stones?" The answer is simple, whatever you want, obviously rec is useless since everyone just negates it with enchant stones or never levels it.

Pretty aparentl a STAT (supposed to be part of a toon build) isn't quite up to par when people see it simply as something to remove numbers from.

The general concenses is that rec is useful for negatives, and no one cares to raise it as it has never really been used or useful or benefitting to anyone. I imagine my idea might seem even crazy to some as they couldn't imagine ever even using REC in a build.

[Sanluciferr]

I havent read everything at all, but to add my little experience on this theme i would like to say that i am probably one of the only casters with a lot of recovery points in Mre , since i built my character for bosses, it was amazing and effective 15 per tic in mana plus bonus to balance etc.

Unfortunately a new patch came and now i will totally get rid of all my recovery and put those into defense since it will no longer be logical to keep those points now that bosses aim every member in the party.

[flipynifty]

yes with a staff the mre pre ticks are actually pretty decent in combat. Perhaps if REG pRE MRE were that significant WITHOUT a staff, and staff users still got a small boost on pre mre (or no boost) then REC would become more important?

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

I havent read everything at all, but to add my little experience on this theme i would like to say that i am probably one of the only casters with a lot of recovery points in Mre , since i built my character for bosses, it was amazing and effective 15 per tic in mana plus bonus to balance etc.

Unfortunately a new patch came and now i will totally get rid of all my recovery and put those into defense since it will no longer be logical to keep those points now that bosses aim every member in the party.

Was thinking the same thing w/ my guy. 31 whole rec levs dedicated to mre. Not very efficient in battles and you can just as easily balance yourself w/ manabursts, invigorates, and a balance gem.

I'll get rid of it when I can stand on my own two feet w/out enchants :\

[flipynifty]

more proof of how easily left behind this stat is

[thatperson]

recovery is very useful....for speed leveling


i agree it needs more use in the game

Originally Posted by Dumpsterslut

Unfourtunately there is only one (im sure you will correct me if im wrong) high lvl regenner at this point. Perhaps we need to ask the main question: "Why is there only ONE capped regenner in game?" we all know the answer.

The Nodiatis Skill Total Tops List has two level 80 regeners: Flipynifty and Vicari. In addition, two others might have reached level cap and delevelled: Kounted (79) and Kelrist (78). There are three other level 70+ regeners: Assmonkey (76), Xlocke (73), Skewer (71).

There must be 350-400 level 70+ characters. Less than 2% are regeners -- a pretty strong indication that it is considered a weak class, even if we didn't know that is the general consensus.

I have a regener alt with a caster build that I've used as a tank, but my guardian alt is much better as a tank, while my priest alt is much better at protecting group members. Recovery needs to be buffed, both to help regeners and to make players of other classes think twice before delevelling all their Recovery.

[Smashbros]

Originally Posted by Juan Arquero

The Nodiatis Skill Total Tops List has two level 80 regeners: Flipynifty and Vicari. In addition, two others might have reached level cap and delevelled: Kounted (79) and Kelrist (78). There are three other level 70+ regeners: Assmonkey (76), Xlocke (73), Skewer (71).

There must be 350-400 level 70+ characters. Less than 2% are regeners -- a pretty strong indication that it is considered a weak class, even if we didn't know that is the general consensus.

I have a regener alt with a caster build that I've used as a tank, but my guardian alt is much better as a tank, while my priest alt is much better at protecting group members. Recovery needs to be buffed, both to help regeners and to make players of other classes think twice before delevelling all their Recovery.

Vicari is perma-banned so does not count.

the others, as far as i know, dont have lvls in recovery.

[Glitchless]

The clumsy use of terminology in this thread makes it difficult to discern real issues with "buff me plox" requests. Recovery is not a stat, it is a skill. It is unclear whether it is being argued that all the Recovery stats (Reg, Pre, Mre) are underpowered or just Reg. The fact that players end fights with full health is often due to them fighting the exact mobs that will allow this, plus they are likely expending some mana and energy to achieve this thus requiring at least some Pre and Mre to recover.

If you're asking for a character who focuses soley on health regeneration to be competitive with more rounded DPS builds in PvP then that simply isn't going to happen. If the consensus is that the gems that provide direct gains to mana/energy are so OP that they make the use of Recovery stats obsolete then that may be something to look into. Or if you are saying that strictly Reg (as opposed to all Recovery stats) is never of any use even when level grinding then that is another thing to look into.

Remember that Nodiatis has 26 classes. If all were used equally each class would make up a mere 3.8% of the players. A respresentation of 2% is not cause for alarm.

[thatperson]

all of the recovery stats are pretty much useless unless your a caster...and even then up through midgame u can get away with none if you use gems that restore mana/energy

as melee or archery recovery is useless completely and a waste of the limited stat points you recieve...most melee people go either 140 39 140 1 or 140 1 140 39 ...the only reason i see melee people with recovery is as a buffer stat for enchants nothing more (exception of flipy ofc)

If I am in fact reading this correctly, all recovery stats, mainly REG, are fairly insignificant when choosing a build due to their ineffectiveness in combat and out of combat.

If the REC stats/skills played a much larger role in combat, such as more regeneration, then it would be considered as a competitive class for tanking, as opposed to a laughing stock.

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The clumsy use of terminology in this thread makes it difficult to discern real issues with "buff me plox" requests. Recovery is not a stat, it is a skill. It is unclear whether it is being argued that all the Recovery stats (Reg, Pre, Mre) are underpowered or just Reg. The fact that players end fights with full health is often due to them fighting the exact mobs that will allow this, plus they are likely expending some mana and energy to achieve this thus requiring at least some Pre and Mre to recover.

If you're asking for a character who focuses soley on health regeneration to be competitive with more rounded DPS builds in PvP then that simply isn't going to happen. If the consensus is that the gems that provide direct gains to mana/energy are so OP that they make the use of Recovery stats obsolete then that may be something to look into. Or if you are saying that strictly Reg (as opposed to all Recovery stats) is never of any use even when level grinding then that is another thing to look into.

Remember that Nodiatis has 26 classes. If all were used equally each class would make up a mere 3.8% of the players. A respresentation of 2% is not cause for alarm.

Hey, the ball is in your court but I'd rather not see the manaburst/invigorate nerf. I was not asking for a caster buff when I posted that and I'm sorry if I led you to believe that was my intention. Flipy is a good friend and I just want to see a recovery buff. All these skills : str, dex, pst, int, cnc, mst, agi (maybe), cnt and dur from those other stat categories hold a higher priority than those in rec. I knew of a lv 59 BM who can do 45 second fights in mt. whitecap and he's able to maintain a steady string of fights. How? whips of course. There aren't as many viable uses for recovery and I'll leave it at that.

I actually want a mana/invigorateburst buff kilppi hehe,I shoot 3 gems and im out lol

[flipynifty]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The clumsy use of terminology in this thread makes it difficult to discern real issues with "buff me plox" requests. Recovery is not a stat, it is a skill. It is unclear whether it is being argued that all the Recovery stats (Reg, Pre, Mre) are underpowered or just Reg. The fact that players end fights with full health is often due to them fighting the exact mobs that will allow this, plus they are likely expending some mana and energy to achieve this thus requiring at least some Pre and Mre to recover.

If you're asking for a character who focuses soley on health regeneration to be competitive with more rounded DPS builds in PvP then that simply isn't going to happen. If the consensus is that the gems that provide direct gains to mana/energy are so OP that they make the use of Recovery stats obsolete then that may be something to look into. Or if you are saying that strictly Reg (as opposed to all Recovery stats) is never of any use even when level grinding then that is another thing to look into.

Remember that Nodiatis has 26 classes. If all were used equally each class would make up a mere 3.8% of the players. A respresentation of 2% is not cause for alarm.

haha, no, not a buff me pl0x (I apologize for my crappy writeup i was tired). Looking at REG, PRE and MRE as a whole is of little use unless massive amounts are pumped into it, when compared to the other stat skills that don't need large numbers to have a largely noticable difference.

My main reason for creating this thread is becuase I have spent a lot of time and effort looking into what (in my case) a ton of REG will actually do on a class that is supposed to be a healing class (self healing, regener).

After much thought I decided not to go with a "buff me pl0x, regeners needs teh help" type thread, and suggested that perhaps boosting REC (reg, pre, mre) as a whole would benefit everyone in game, including the Regener class, if someone so chose to actually put something into REG PRE or MRE.

No i will never compete with melee or magics, and I realize this, nor will Regener compete with tanks like Guardian or largely defensive builds.

Perhaps if you consider boosting a STAT (REC) to useful proportions it will become useful, not only for Regeners, but other classes and players that may decide that having some REG, PRE or MRE in combination with Combat Recovery, Battle Mending, Combat Endurance, Combat Concentration and gain benefit from doing so.

The general consensus is that REG is pretty useless, MRE and PRE not so much as those that actually level them have a staff and get bonuses from it.

Basically it's not worth it to level anything in REC unless you wear a staff or put an astronomical amount of points into REG, pRE or MRE

[Relic]

Unrelated: (Although I do agree with Flipy, buffing REG stats would open up many more build options, both PvP and PvE alike)

I say in light of recent and past Class, Skill, & Stat changes since the opening of Nodiatis A one time Class Change should be implemented, since classes some people chose 1 or 2 years ago aren't the same classes anymore. I know I know, "Spend more money and make new characters." right, of course. I just felt the need to bring this up, why? Eyeuno.

If Recovery becomes important i predict archers and maybe casters to complain more. I remember how archers and casters were whining about melee being able to reach 140 in both Melee and Defense and felt they couldn't compete and wanted all melee to burn in eternal hellfire. But that whining slowly stopped.


But if Archers cant use -Mre, -Pre and maybe even -Reg stones then what will they use? Only viable option would be Str and even with a r15 Str pot i doubt one can reach the maximized enchants. I guess they could always use -Pst and - Mst but that would make it impossible or close to impossible to escape from random mana/energy drain bosses.

Another point is what can Casters use for -s. Like San said some use Mre and Pre but it is unproven or atleast to my knowledge to be worthwhile if only farming and especially not worth it PvP. So speaking on behalf of the casters who use -Mre and -Pre. What would they use for -s. Only viable option would be Dex and Str (Some noob casters actually have high Str lolsauce!?!?! talking about capped that is). So i am not sure if they could do all their enchants in just 2 Categories also. And there would be no possible enchant choices for the noob casters with Str/Dex.

But who knows. I might be wrong and they might not complain(highly unlikely).


My Opinion: While Recovery is a great idea and i like it and actually went with that instead of Magic. I dont see how it will ever be good. In Nodiatis and other games you are supposed to kill stuff. Last time i checked me regening health didnt kill anything. So that being said it is all about play style and what you want your char to be. Not sure about this but i would love to see 20+ health ticks in combat versus bosses. And quite frankly leveling the noob i had a bunch of times i actually enjoyed having recovery, it helped a lot because he was a beastmaster those times and was before level 40 so no Fire and Ice/Growl awesomeness. It is however barely useful/useless to use during cap life.

@Glitchless Technically it is a Stat.. Stat Skill that is

@Smashbros Your opinion ofc. My opinion is Vicari does count. He is a char, Regener and capped. So why wouldnt he count? Being banned has nothing to do with the fact he is a Capped Regener.

@Dumpsterslut Level Cap to me and most others is 77+ seeing as how tons of people delevel after they hit level 80. So like Juan said there is 4 capped(3 if you don't count Vicari).

@Thatperson Inspecting Capped players in T2 throws your theory out of the water. Me, Jacend, Yaro and Azure are pure Recov no Magic people for starters and there is a good number of people 50/50 Magic/Recov in T2 atm also.