More Testing To Be Done With AC

I'm not sure the AC patch was an overall step forward for the game.

Granted, I don't know all the numbers that got changed around but...the game is significantly more difficult now...perhaps to its detriment. (Ok I'll just say it, its difficult enough that it inhibits me even wanting to play right now.)

For example, before the patch I could kill 8 even/yellow monsters in 20 minutes. Now I'm downing about 4. Before the patch I ended the battle with 3/4+ HP. Now I'm coming out with 1/3 to 1/2 HP (and have even come close to death at some points in the battle).

So that, in two ways, is making me feel some AT loss pain. #1 Increase in battle time. #2 Increase in regen downtime. And I'm wearing the best armor I can wear for my level (which is LV11 stuff) until I can get my suiting up to 16. I am also a fairly defense-oriented character with lots of HP and Regen.



So ok, even if player AC itself is balanced right now, why is it taking me so much longer to kill an even level monster? Did their AC go up too? Or is it meant to be that we should need a group just to kill evens with any efficiency?

Perhaps we can find a balance between where it was at pre-patch and where it's at now?

I almost feel like asking for it to be rolled-back altogether but that might not be right either. All I know is combat "felt" better before, if that makes any sense. Anyway, I think this patch should definitely be tweaked somehow.

I'm going to throw out some possible solutions to try to be constructive but since I'm not sure all the things that were changed besides AC, its kind of a stab in the dark. But I'm pretty sure monsters are not balanced for their level.

Solution #1 - Lower the damage monsters deal (physical and magical) some

Solution #2 - Lower the monsters' AC and resist values

Solution #3 - Scale up rewards (xp, trophies, loot, etc.) to make the longer harder fights "feel worth it"

Those are my guesses...I don't like whining but I feel like the difficulty might have jumped just a little bit too much. If I'm using so much time on evens at my level, how is that going to scale in the higher levels? Am I going to need a full group just to fight greens and then barely get out of the battle alive and then only be able to fight a few monsters per hour? Just a guess but...the scenario does not sound fun!

On a different note, boss difficulty is probably just about right. Bosses should be difficult if not exceedingly difficult for their level.


Edit: Thanks doc, I will check out that upgrade and report back later.

[doctor-warlord]

actually theres lvl 13 rare suit in T1 the geide set

I Happen to believe the new AC system is GREAT!!!

I ran a little test before at lvl 9 and took off all my armor and fought in the spruce woods. I averaged the damage dealt to me by squirrels with an AC of 22 and an AC of 176. The average was the same (off by 1 point overall but not significant).

There is no point i having low level armors in the game at all if an AC difference of 150 has no effect. Yes the game is harder now which means people can't power lvl/ Min-max characters and cruise right through to lvl 20 in a blink. It forces people to worry about defending rather than maxing damage (in short it helps take the EXTREME advantage off archers).

Ok so it seems like we have a reversal of the situation that existed before.

Before lower levels thought AC didn't do enough but higher levels were content with it.

Now lower levels are happy with AC but higher levels seem to be suffering. I will do more testing and in the meantime, I hope as the lower levels get higher they stay content with it.


Edit: Update on getting geode set from T1 - not going to happen - I can't backtrack from T4 now that everything is so strong, especially the sandskin goblin. My pace will be very slow for a few days.

It seems basically impossible to solo a boss now, at least at the somewhat higher levels. I got my face kicked in by the Bloodtusk Elephant in a random encounter, but the night before the boss-buff, I solo'd him fairly easily.

This is fine, bosses are supposed to be hard, supposed to require a group. However, there are two major problems with this.

1) Bosses on narrow paths between zones. You can't avoid the Ogre, the Newt, the Goblin, etc. when travelling to a new town. This means you're essentially required to either play multiple characters, or group in order to reach a new town. Is this intentional? I, for one, prefer to solo as much as possible, especially since the hours during which I can play fluctuate and are almost always off-peak.

2) Random boss encounters. If you don't have several open slots/Free Escapes, or 25 Wizardry, enjoy your AT loss. Bosses absolutely stomp a solo character now, and the fact that you can just randomly bump into them means there's a lot of danger just in the normal course of killing things and taking their stuff. Whatever happened to the possibility of dropping the second gem pouch to 10 Wizardry? :P

But seriously, this patch puts a serious issue of game balance into question. I was fighting blues and teals in the Plains today, and a bit of bad luck caused me to nearly die fighting a Hellfire Anthill (level 13), with me at level 14 (with 127 AC).

Also, it seems damage from monster spells has increased greatly, and since AC has a lower impact on that source of damage, and it's much, much harder to mitigate through skills and stats, that regardless of armor, monsters are doing a lot more damage.

Coming from a high level group of 3:
I'm really surprised to hear about people having problems with yellows after that patch. I'm still fighting yellows at the same rate as before the patch. The only difference is now instead of ending each fight quickly with 100% health, mana and energy I might lose 5-10% of some of those which is quickly filled again before the next fight, with no additional downtime. I like it though, it gets old when you don't even see your bars move while fighting, definitely too easy. Oranges are slightly more difficult, but I'd say I still kill them about at the same rate, they just actually act like they're a couple levels above me now whereas before they posed absolutely no threat whatsoever! Only reds and purples are much harder for me, but with the changes to treasure chests it seems even more beneficial to have quicker fights if you could use the money.

I'm curious to see if Jeff posts anything about this, because I'm really wondering what the difference is to me not having much increased time fighting yellows/oranges and others do seeing as I don't think my characters are amazingly equipped or anything... Also, I don't appear to be taking much, if any, additional damage when fighting yellows. And when fighting oranges I take probably between 1/4-1/3 damage, which I'm able to quickly heal/regen. My group is level 31 and I have mostly level 27 armor with a couple 30 pieces and my weapons are 20 rare piercer (yes, i know, in dire need of an upgrade on her) with 2 squirrels, 27 rare slasher and 30 archery set.

[doctor-warlord]

well yesterday i could easily solo north passage after patch im lucky if i survive the weakest one im lvl 18 with 19 armor set and a lvl 13 staff i suddenly started taking hits of 25 and up damage

Originally Posted by doctor-warlord

well yesterday i could easily solo north passage after patch im lucky if i survive the weakest one im lvl 18 with 19 armor set and a lvl 13 staff i suddenly started taking hits of 25 and up damage

What do they con to you? Orange?

Edit: I just fought an orange in the ogre caves who took my archer down to half health, but I only got 2 heals up that fight.
I think it makes fighting more exciting when you actually need to TRY to beat what you're fighting, I like having to focus more on what I'm doing. Mindlessly fighting back to back without having to do anything or have any downtime gets old fast, in my opinion. Before the patch I'd encounter an orange, click attack and could basically leave it be until the creature was dead and have no downtime or anything I needed to do during/between fights. I think this way it's a lot more interactive and fun!

Originally Posted by Kieria

Coming from a high level group of 3:

Exactly, grouping is still fine, I'm talking about soloing. As in, with a single character, rather than a group being played entirely by myself. You shouldn't have to group to play the game, just take down bosses and complete the more challenging content.

Like I said, it was a bit of bad luck, but I finished a fight with a monster one level below me with around 20% hp, mana, and energy. Ouch.

[doctor-warlord]

they are orange and red to me in north passage but looks like the toughest i can beat now alone is orange before it was purple/pink

Originally Posted by doctor-warlord

they are orange and red to me in north passage but looks like the toughest i can beat now alone is orange before it was purple/pink

Yeah that's how it is for me. Oranges I kill quite comfortably still. I don't think that this is a bad thing though, as for every other MMORPG I've played this seems to be the norm, you shouldn't be able to fight stuff that's THAT high above your level unless you're a supertwink.

Originally Posted by Camli

Exactly, grouping is still fine, I'm talking about soloing. As in, with a single character, rather than a group being played entirely by myself. You shouldn't have to group to play the game, just take down bosses and complete the more challenging content.

Like I said, it was a bit of bad luck, but I finished a fight with a monster one level below me with around 20% hp, mana, and energy. Ouch.

Ah sorry Camli, I guess I missed that part! I really don't know much about soloing in the game so even if I did a solo fight now I wouldn't be able to tell if it was harder or not since I have nothing to judge it against. I'm sure Jeff will weigh in on this sooner or later!

[doctor-warlord]

well soloing is harder now i can say that as bosses they are harder too both when soloing and grouping as when jeff add the patch i was in a group fighting mountain goat we where wining though as it was interrupted by update we tried again and died before it even lost 1/4th of its HP and before i was the only one taking damage and i was at almost full health cause of healing and it was at half HP

I think that once everyone gets over the adjustment period the change will be for the best. It makes battles more interactive and exciting and makes your equipment a whole lot more worthwhile.
If we had all started the game like this, I don't think most people would have said that creatures were too hard. And we have to keep in mind that this is beta, so we're all going to get a fresh start, somewhat soon too I'm guessing! It just seems to me that fighting creatures got a whole lot more interesting and I'm glad that I have to focus a bit more on what I'm doing and less on what's on TV

PS - Reminder: all coming from a group player so soloists don't hate me, I promise I'm not trying to speak on your behalf!

UPDATE: I just took my guys over to the ogre foothills to see what would happen when they soloed blues, and I had absolutely no problems with it at all. In fact my character with 260 armor only took a sliver of damage and was full mana/energy and immediately went on to her next fight while my others had to take a 5-10 second intermission to regen between fights, probably because she's using a level 20 weapon, imagine that, and despite that it still seemed pretty quick to me.

[Glitchless]

There's no questioning the fact that this is a huge nerf, the game just got a LOT harder especially for those who realized how little AC did and were exploiting it by investing heavy in weapons and not in armor.

If you just started playing the game today, however, you'd think nothing of it... or you'd be glad that armor was actually worth buying when you bought your first expensive piece and saw your damage taken go down. That's the criteria that needs to be used when determining if a beta patch was good or not.

The days of soloing yellow+ bosses may be over but I have no problem with that. Bosses are meant to be gatekeepers and now they really are. Make some friends when your AT runs out and go boss hunting ... but not for purple and black bosses anymore.

[doctor-warlord]

well now it will take longer to reach new places but guess it will be good once you get use to it as it might be a bit tough to start with and some players might need to ask for help because they are in a town where they cant leave cause creatures have become tougher though hopefully they will be as lucky as i was and someone is willing to help them back to previous town

also shouldnt minium requirements to enter areas be increased a bit as some places you wont be able to survive even with a group at the current minium entry lvls just for an example of such an area ill mention redwood forest that requires lvl 64 to enter and is a lvl 97+ area

I like the armor update quite a lot. After properly suiting my characters I find they can still fight orange mobs with no isses and red mobs with few issues. I liked having a reason to set suiting to passive overnight and will continue to raise it. Thanks Jeff.

[Glitchless]

Level restrictions are to limit noob stupidity, not really protect level 50 players.

Originally Posted by Richie

I like the armor update quite a lot. After properly suiting my characters I find they can still fight orange mobs with no isses and red mobs with few issues. I liked having a reason to set suiting to passive overnight and will continue to raise it. Thanks Jeff.

This is what I'm doing too, the oranges/reds thing. I actually kept my suiting up to my level so far, so luckily I don't have a lot of catching up to do with that.

My interest has really been renewed in using my daily AT now, as well in as a bunch of stats and skills that I hadn't even thought about because fights were just so easy. Definitely a fun change for me as well