Potential prowler changes?

[Aesonicus]

I understand overall prowler seems balanced, and is a decent class as is, but still not as enticing to BMs as being BM/Vamp for survivability, or BM/DK for dps especially considering most BMs are KoK users. Even as a LoD BM i doubt im going to pilg 5 times for it since i already get plenty of hit % from LoDs. Also the majority of BMs are running Rabids so healing% doesn't do much for them.

Suggested change would be to lower hit chance and add dmg, and/or replace healing bonus with vamp.

Suggesstion would be something like

4% to 12% all pet dmg. (or 5-15 max pet)

4% to 12% hit chance

6% to 18% bonus dmg whips max dmg

3% to 9% HP vampirism with whip/ranged/pet attacks
and 25-75% plague shock dmg

Just food for thought, since Most BMs i know aren't thinking of rolling a prowler including myself due to the class not fitting the current playstyle of BMs.

[Freakymagic]

Prowler is one of the best lg class's. People who think otherwise are dumb.

Is it different then bm/vamp? YES. But thats a good thing. It gives more options and builds. If everyone wants to do the same old build and just whine that prowler is bad thats on them (even though its op with the "same old build").

[Darklords]

<--- dumb

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Darklords

<--- dumb

This is a known known, not an unknown known.

Originally Posted by Freakymagic

Prowler is one of the best lg class's. People who think otherwise are dumb.

Is it different then bm/vamp? YES. But thats a good thing. It gives more options and builds. If everyone wants to do the same old build and just whine that prowler is bad thats on them (even though its op with the "same old build").

This, having to change your build isn't bad. You all extremely under estimate how important hit chance is, but then will say dcdd is good because of the hit chance??????

[Aesonicus]

Originally Posted by Tsutsu

This is a known known, not an unknown known.



This, having to change your build isn't bad. You all extremely under estimate how important hit chance is, but then will say dcdd is good because of the hit chance??????

I understand how strong hit chance is, its why i run LoDs, and Dragon Staff. Its op. As i stated in my post i think its a fine class, just many BMs aren't interested in it. Including myself as it will require me to make use of its healing to run vacc instead of rabids, which topped with 24% dmg to 9% dmg will be massive. Or if i want to try to maintain that DPS i then lose out on 10% vamp which would again force me to go Vacc instead of Rabids. So I understand why many BMs aren't swapping. TBH if LoDs had more Multi Att, and less hit chance i'd prolly consider pilging and reroll a lot more, but since they OP no point in my BM going Prowler.

This post was meant as an idea starter, since i only know of 2 Prowlers, and from what i hear they aren't happy with it.

[Aesonicus]

Originally Posted by Freakymagic

Prowler is one of the best lg class's. People who think otherwise are dumb.

Is it different then bm/vamp? YES. But thats a good thing. It gives more options and builds. If everyone wants to do the same old build and just whine that prowler is bad thats on them (even though its op with the "same old build").

For the most part, besides zerker, what other LG classes completely force a player to change their playstyle? Even then could be argued that zerker isn't even that big of a playstyle change.

Many BMs were waiting for a LG class for BMs, while yes Prowler is for BMs, it is a different style of BM that was basically thrown in the dumpster with the introduction of KoKs

[Tsutsu]

It's an all around buff to BM's, which every other LG class is.... so I don't understand why you think it's bad. I also love how you just completely are ignoring the MASSIVE WHIP DAMAGE BUFF YOU GET FROM THIS CLASS.

I'm making all of my BM alts prowlers eventually, alga is going prowler, freaky is going to make some prowlers. So Idk what you mean by many BM's dont want to go prowler.

[Freakymagic]

Originally Posted by Aesonicus

For the most part, besides zerker, what other LG classes completely force a player to change their playstyle? Even then could be argued that zerker isn't even that big of a playstyle change.

Many BMs were waiting for a LG class for BMs, while yes Prowler is for BMs, it is a different style of BM that was basically thrown in the dumpster with the introduction of KoKs

Prowler does not force you to do anything. Can easily run prowler/bm with 2 koks. Just because dl and say prowler is bad doesent mean it is. DL said hit chance doesent add dps, that he doesent care about dps only max hits. Really think thats a good opinion on if a class is good or not?

What prowler gives is options. Those options have choices. Do i want max dmg and vamp? probably stay bm/vamp. Do i want max dps? prowler/bm. etc etc

Its an op class. Bms's are op. They dont need an even oper class that has EVERYTHING any braindead bm can use without any thought put into the choices they need to make for their build.

[Aesonicus]

Originally Posted by Freakymagic

Prowler does not force you to do anything. Can easily run prowler/bm with 2 koks. Just because dl and say prowler is bad doesent mean it is. DL said hit chance doesent add dps, that he doesent care about dps only max hits. Really think thats a good opinion on if a class is good or not?

What prowler gives is options. Those options have choices. Do i want max dmg and vamp? probably stay bm/vamp. Do i want max dps? prowler/bm. etc etc

Its an op class. Bms's are op. They dont need an even oper class that has EVERYTHING any braindead bm can use without any thought put into the choices they need to make for their build.

Exactly. I never said prowler was bad, just that it doesn't fit most BMs current playstyle. This post was just to get my thoughts on it out there, and have others chime in on it for their ideas too.
I'm not Pale asking for pure buff to the class for no reason other than being bad at nod, Im asking to have the class changed to fit most BMs current playstyle. I agree it gives BMs more options the way it is, which is why in my original post i said its a balanced class, and is fine the way it is. Im just suggesting to change it to make it more appealing to current BMs out there. Just like you said as it stands For me and most other BMs there still isn't a BM LG class that is a better version of current BMs.

New Idea, for a new LG class that resolves this, and leave prowler as is.

Hog Rider (name it whatever you want)

4-12% increased Dmg with all pets attacks and heals
4-12% increased healing from all pet attacks

CA Grants 20% haste to all pets attacks for 10 seconds.

Boom easy LG class that every BM would be happy with.

[Aesonicus]

Originally Posted by Aesonicus

Exactly. I never said prowler was bad, just that it doesn't fit most BMs current playstyle. This post was just to get my thoughts on it out there, and have others chime in on it for their ideas too.
I'm not Pale asking for pure buff to the class for no reason other than being bad at nod, Im asking to have the class changed to fit most BMs current playstyle. I agree it gives BMs more options the way it is, which is why in my original post i said its a balanced class, and is fine the way it is. Im just suggesting to change it to make it more appealing to current BMs out there. Just like you said as it stands For me and most other BMs there still isn't a BM LG class that is a better version of current BMs.

New Idea, for a new LG class that resolves this, and leave prowler as is.

Hog Rider (name it whatever you want)

4-12% increased Dmg with all pets attacks and heals
4-12% increased healing from all pet attacks

CA Grants 20% haste to all pets attacks for 10 seconds.

Boom easy LG class that every BM would be happy with.

nvm my lg suggestion, jester prolly better class than it.

[paulodjohn]

I don't understand whippers who do not like prowler class.

This thread would be more useful if we talked about builds who do not have a lg class to represent them. Most builds do, including whippers.

[Aesonicus]

Originally Posted by paulodjohn

I don't understand whippers who do not like prowler class.

This thread would be more useful if we talked about builds who do not have a lg class to represent them. Most builds do, including whippers.

what class doesn't have a lg class for it?

[Zaark]

Originally Posted by Aesonicus

what class doesn't have a lg class for it?

Feels like staff dotters doesn't really have one, its a staff DDers op class with a few part helping dots. If the 15% vamp to DD would apply to dots I'd be happy.

[flipynifty]

crush doesn't really... I guess WW but that's more for pierce where cougar is for slash.

arch are for all staff casters using dd and dot it appear

[paulodjohn]

Staff dot and dd do have a class. Arcanist.

Crusher has ww or berserker.d

Out of all the builds people use the only ones that dont get a dps increase from choosing a primary lg class are double cast dd and dot.

Maybe arcanist working without a staff but at a lower % would be good, just to have an option for a double cast build

[flipynifty]

beserker is pretty specific... as for WW, as I said pierce gets the most out of that one. theres no real specific crush one was the point

[Aesonicus]

Originally Posted by paulodjohn

Staff dot and dd do have a class. Arcanist.

Crusher has ww or berserker.d

Out of all the builds people use the only ones that dont get a dps increase from choosing a primary lg class are double cast dd and dot.

Maybe arcanist working without a staff but at a lower % would be good, just to have an option for a double cast build

Larc, Gatherer, Cougar, jester all can be used with DC builds

[Freakymagic]

Originally Posted by flipynifty

beserker is pretty specific... as for WW, as I said pierce gets the most out of that one. theres no real specific crush one was the point

Honestly if your melee your likely using a mix of every type. The class's give the bonus to all of them and depending on the situation depends what weapon your using. Out of piercing/slashing/crushing slashing is the least likely to be used but thats not due to the class's thats due to the weapons for pure melees.

Originally Posted by paulodjohn

Out of all the builds people use the only ones that dont get a dps increase from choosing a primary lg class are double cast dd and dot.

dbl dot has larc and gatherer.

Dbl dd has werecougar. IDK that its any better then warlock but it it an option.
As well has larc.

Both have jester as an option.

Might not be the class bonus's preferred for them but gives more options without just more dmg which neither needs.

[Lakki]

Lol I think people are also forgetting the insane opener damage that prowler BM's are putting out now as well,...

I'd be willing to argue that they have the most consistent opener damage in the game at the moment, granted the only prowler i'm dealing with at the moment is Zodrack since DL for whatever reason rerolled from it.

The trishot openers + fateseal boost + the pets basically never miss due to hit chance boost is literally all this class needs. the bonus to whips, and 30% heal buff is icing on the cake.

I've taken 10-15k openers against this class several times, that's running timmy+toad+gem for openers and having 79 defiance

If i were to fight a werewolf, and I had two timmys equipped, or one timmy+toad+gem, there is a pretty high chance i'll survive the opener, and I'd argue the quad+max damage hit they do on openers is probably realistically only 10% of the time, while a prowler BM hits these numbers every single time the match starts. A WW opener can probably be anywhere from 0 damage to 35k damage typically against a player that has some miti and defense leveled (correct me if wrong) WW's can miss, and don't hit insanely high damage every time they swing, they have a lot of RNG on their hits.

I think prowler/beastmaster is potentially the best setup for 1v1, but since y'all are talking about alternative LG classes,...

I would however love to see an LG class more specific to dcdot than say gatherer, jester, or larc. One that focuses on damage, unresist chance, and gem haste or maybe increased outbreak chance idk xD basically a better version of rogue, that purely focuses on damage and damage only and is an 'assassin' class or something.

because gatherer doesnt have haste, Jester has haste, but barely any. So Larc is still my go to option, but I have considered at times rerolling back to rogue just for the sake of the same reason why prowlers want to reroll back to BM/DK to have those big "flashy" numbers, but I feel regular classes are just not worth compared what LG classes provide as a primary class. Gatherer gives mats. Larc gives a lot of gold/haste. Jester gives you some gold and some exp. and the other LG classes give high damage

IF i were to pick a diff double-cast class, it'd probs be jester for that CA in PvP, but thats pretty much it,

Moral of the story is that prowler/bm is insanely strong, and why people think otherwise is a joke. you can probably beat most matchups just running vaccination. Also, i'm fairly certain that prowler/bm's actually kill faster than double-casters in PvE as well in a lot of zones, or come seconds off if not. due to that insane hit chance bonus as well, and don't even need to hold down the 1 key either.

[Qratos]

I like the fact that everyone in this thread has tried Prowler so far to put their input on it.