PVP balance

[Freakymagic]

My 2 cents.

No build is currently op/up. So because of that glitch you are likely going to throw this out the window but *shrug* ill say it anyways.

Some lgs are OP. When x option should be the best option for your build, but because y option is so strong its better regardless of teirs. Thats wrong.

When your a melee dps and using a t1 samurai bow ( should be a "tank" item) is better then a t5 thraki ( Should be the "best" dps bow for melee toons) thats just stupid. Both pve/pvp.

When as a pure archer. Samurai bow is better dps option then any other option even when comparing t5 vs t1... thats wrong ( more so pvp then pve for this but still silly).

When a staff user can do 2.5k + dmg in a swign with 0 stats needed ( run 50 str/ 50 dex with kok staff) its silly. Especially when not penalized for using kok staff ( what other staff is really worth using? dders its the best option, doters its the best option, healers out side of needing drain proof proc its either the best or 2nd best option)

Just a couple examples but my issue is this:

WHY make every type of build be required to use the x op option to be efficient? Id rather there be MORE options to use and build with then " i go bm, i have to use koks or im wasting gold on sub optimal options" "i go dbl dder, i have to use fang spear or im wasting gold being sub optimal" "i go staff user, i have to have a kok staff or im just dumb using sub optimal items" " i go dbl doter, i have to use boiler or im being sub optimal ( yea can use edge but even that is sub optimal)"

Other lgs are UP. I wont go into detail liek the op ones but, just look at the staggering amount of ppl using sluberskull bow, angel hair whip, Blight barb dagger, hamemr of unity, vamp whip, armored companion, soul devourer, hogs, enchantrix staff, axe of soul stealing, providence spear.

Sure some of those up lgs HAVE A VERY NICHE usability. Its either never the better option, or its so rare you just throw it up to rng and save yourself millions of gold not bothering with using them. Especially since even if you shell out the millions to use them its going to be such a small difference vs the standard option its just rng outcome.

As i said, just my 2 cents for what its worth.

[Glitchless]

Some good points on item usability- not to be confused with PvP balance. I'm open to feedback on items that are overused/underused so long as it's not framed as though it's some game-breaking balance issue when it clearly isn't.

There's a pretty hard counter to the Samurai Bow right now. If you're going against top tier 3v3 competition as a DPS archer or melee, I don't think you're going to be choosing it anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Staves have been weak historically. Only recently, when casters no longer ruled the PvP scene, we added some truly powerful options get more casters active again. Some of the older lines need a revisit for potential buffs, agreed.

The double cast builds were essentially created by the big bonuses from certain non-staff items. The fact that you then need to choose those items to use a double cast build should not be cause for alarm.

[Neela]

I wanna throw in blue dd gems as in UP and sadly white and grey dds aswell, look into them aswell pls

[NoRemorse]

white is second highest in terms of average damage

[paulodjohn]

Shield gems are pretty up too. Cant really use them in arena, better to use heals. Especially when damage scales.

White are not used as its easier to maintain one of either energy/mana. Reds are best in terms of damage and they use mana, so trying to incorporate whites in there that use energy wont be optimum. So nearly every dd uses red gems

[Tsutsu]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Some good points on item usability- not to be confused with PvP balance. I'm open to feedback on items that are overused/underused so long as it's not framed as though it's some game-breaking balance issue when it clearly isn't.

There's a pretty hard counter to the Samurai Bow right now. If you're going against top tier 3v3 competition as a DPS archer or melee, I don't think you're going to be choosing it anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Staves have been weak historically. Only recently, when casters no longer ruled the PvP scene, we added some truly powerful options get more casters active again. Some of the older lines need a revisit for potential buffs, agreed.

The double cast builds were essentially created by the big bonuses from certain non-staff items. The fact that you then need to choose those items to use a double cast build should not be cause for alarm.

I got rid of my t5 Thraki after the toad/annuran came out and tiered my samurai bow because it's still a better option than relying on rng from the thraki. It's just silly that the thing is 100% proc rate. Should have just reduced it to a chance based proc...

Also when farming PVE it is a far higher DPS option on the pit+ bosses than any tier thraki is.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Tsutsu

I got rid of my t5 Thraki after the toad/annuran came out and tiered my samurai bow because it's still a better option than relying on rng from the thraki.

Interesting theory. We'll see how that works out for you.

[Freakymagic]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

Some good points on item usability- not to be confused with PvP balance. I'm open to feedback on items that are overused/underused so long as it's not framed as though it's some game-breaking balance issue when it clearly isn't.

As i stated, the items arnt pushing builds into being op and making things out of balance, the issue is there's a lack of options. This build has this 1 option if i don't chose the 1 option im being inefficient. Makes things very stale. Sure can do inefficient things and if the plan is solid enough it MIGHT work. But why try and innovate when there is a very clear best option and waste time/gold to be different for the sake of being different knowing your putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Basically every staff but kok staff, every whip but kok, 1/2 the bows. 1/2 the melee weapons. 1/2 the pets. Are all under used due to other vastly superior options.

There's a pretty hard counter to the Samurai Bow right now. If you're going against top tier 3v3 competition as a DPS archer or melee, I don't think you're going to be choosing it anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think samurai bow will 100% be used. Its hard to beat guaranteed dmg late into bonus. Wait for the right time to shatter a gem and you could win just off the proc without any other dmg. Wont work for every team but i can guarantee samurai bow sees use even if its because of lack of better/other options and ppl already owning samurai bow. If nothing else it also forces EVERY opponent to invest in a toad and anurans. Thus leaving them weaker (Removing a pet slot) while you will lose ... Very little running a bow with no other bonus.

Staves have been weak historically. Only recently, when casters no longer ruled the PvP scene, we added some truly powerful options get more casters active again. Some of the older lines need a revisit for potential buffs, agreed.

Yes they definitely do. Having 6 lgs Basically removed from the game due to 1 be all end all for the build is not enjoyable.

The double cast builds were essentially created by the big bonuses from certain non-staff items. The fact that you then need to choose those items to use a double cast build should not be cause for alarm.

Ofc to dbl cast you need double cast items. Issue is there is very few "good" options to run. Beguiler, whip of irresolution, kraken. All are outshone by fang. Sure you get the option to run a shield. But your handicapping yourself doing so. Dbl doters who dont want/need the hit %, edge and boiler are so far above those 3 options its laughable when they are used.

Again these ... issues?... are not "Omg this so op its broken nerf it now". Its that every build runs the same stuff. Those who run different things are imposing a handicap on them selves. Yes you can succeed by running strange things. Alt team has finished near the top of pre made arena the last 2 pre made's and by no means SHOULD they have done so. Having options that are viable makes for a better experience.

Yes there are currently options that you can choose from. They are such a weaker option from the "standard's" that 9/10 times your better off running the standard. You then end up with the same build fighting each other over and over and it comes down to who gets the lucky rng. All of which leads to a boring and lack luster experience that takes away from the fun of arena.

[Glitchless]

We could definitely benefit from more diversity of item selection within the builds. Added another round of buffs to all underused LGs to the most wanted list.

Keep in mind, it's difficult to get someone to switch LGs just because another of equal/slightly greater strength exists. They either don't want to risk it or don't want to lose their existing investment. Then you've got the people who will continue to use Samurai Bow even if it's doing 0 damage to their PvP foe because Samurai's are cool.

[Lakki]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

We could definitely benefit from more diversity of item selection within the builds. Added another round of buffs to all underused LGs to the most wanted list.

Keep in mind, it's difficult to get someone to switch LGs just because another of equal/slightly greater strength exists. They either don't want to risk it or don't want to lose their existing investment. Then you've got the people who will continue to use Samurai Bow even if it's doing 0 damage to their PvP foe because Samurai's are cool.

Now that Underused LG's are in radar, Perhaps we could revisit this thread then?

http://forums.nodiatis.com/forums/sh...ight=underused

[Glitchless]

Will take a look at it, however, when buffing old LGs it will be extremely rare that their effects are changed. They were made and purchased for specific effects, which we'll amplify, and new effects are reserved for new items.

[Tsutsu]

Can we get more frequent new item releases then... 2-3 a year is... way too slow.

[flipynifty]

they'll run out :O