Puncture, bloodlets and Demonblood Ranseur

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by marzus

Again I state that it is good pve but...

You say "but" as if there should be no buts. If a weapon is good for something, as that one is, then it there are other weapons that need a buff long before that one will be considered.

[Sanluciferr]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

You say "but" as if there should be no buts. If a weapon is good for something, as that one is, then it there are other weapons that need a buff long before that one will be considered.

Exactly, like Enchantrix Staff for instance..

[marzus]

You can not just nullify all said for a single but. Of course is good when you compare it with a wep that cures you or one that gives avoid to blocks and parries. Maybe the proper wording should have been "better" not "good".

I do not even dare comparing to other types of weapon, I still remember when solar cudgel dropped then demonblood dropped too. The disappointment I had when my weapon had a proc that deals little bonus damage and the others were bragging with their 20% hit chance and also a proc that deals little damage. And for what ? For 5% bonus hit chance that piercers get from skill ?

I am using numbers from huggles's list of dropped legendaries, a +1 damage bonus is a tampon not a buff, the 150 to 160 damage that the wierd staff now does is the same, a tampon. My guess would be that an increase so small meant that you did not consider in the first place that those weapons needed a buff.

Snapping out of it, in the end you are to decide the buts, I am to give points of view. I don't see any rule that forbids perseverance. Please take into consideration the other ideas.

[Nemesiss]

meh

[marzus]

Never heard someone willing to switch from that hammer to this ranseur. Even the 2h melee arena team openers was done with 3x 2h cudgel solar. They were better even without the puncture skill designed to rip through this AC that you all care about but not use it.

[Nemesiss]

no idea what team as theres never been a team using 3 solar fury's thats actually done even half decent if any at all. even if there was, you'd have no way to know unless a team used 3x ranseurs as well, which hasnt been done

[Andressan]

The puncture skill negates all AC. You just admitted the fact that mobs have AC. So it's very useful pve be default. The 150 poisonbolt is iceing on the cake for consistent dmg along with a higher hit chance than any other melee weapons much like the slice skill for slashers: not huge dmg but consistent dmg. Or the massive hits for crushers make up for the little consistent hits and bleeds and such of the slash and pierce. Pierce has massive bloodlets that is never changing dps unless it's DB or weighted or venge so again lots of dps. ALL melee got the quadrakill dps buff which Glitch has been showcasing quite nicely in the beasts. Now all melee weapons have a chance to quadrakill extra procs into the mix. Just run r5 melee haste, r5 sharpened steel with euphoric with like 250-260 mre/pre and you can also run sacri if you place the gems right in their slots, or steel fangs with stalkers and vamp rune, vamp quiver, vamp bp, or haste it up with the ali/regulus bp, and badgers and still run steel fangs with energetic rune and switch stats around so you can do euphoric and energetic to run the melee haste r5 sharpened r5 and steel fangs np. And if you don't like 2h the 1h options are very nice for extra speed for uber vamps too. I like the idea of the hydrafang daggers vamp quiver steel fangs melee haste and sharpened with high quadra with ali bp and badgers for farming redwood boss solo in like 40 secs or less. If you want to go higher you can tweak it with weighted in there too and timmies. The shear guantlet of variety of things that not only work but work well astounds me, and the equally astounding fact of people's incessant complaining about things without milking them is baffling and mind numbingly boring not to mention annoying. Take a deep breath to get oxygen to your brain then use it to figure this stuff out bro.

[marzus]

I can't help but notice your anger.

I figured out much of how to beat you in cb. Either my brain is oxygenated enough, either both of our brains need oxygen.

[Blaze]

Originally Posted by marzus

I can't help but notice your anger.

I figured out much of how to beat you in cb. Either my brain is oxygenated enough, either both of our brains need oxygen.

Wat?

[Lakki]

Still think the other LG piercers needs a buff! lol, INSPECT all the caps! how many of them use piercing? let alone the other Pierce weps besides Conjuration hell, i know slashers and crushers exist (not much more than piercers but LOOK) 3 toons use a spear of providence LG spear. THREE. very few use Ranseur, sure its less than 10. 0 use purity. there a few others but all you see is Conjooration, Conjooration, and more Conjooration! where is the diversity in piercing LG's? -.- BUFF THE OTHER PIERCING LG WEPS! support.

[Blaze]

if we go by that there are even more piercers than slashers. clearly this means slashing needs the biggest buff.
i can only think of 3 capped slashers using lgs.
there are a couple that use slash/pierce combo but you're only talking about 2handed so we'll go by that.
widowmaker. nemesiss. try to name a slasher or two besides them (2h).

note: lot of archers used runed flurry. so if they're an archer they don't count

matrik uses purity. it's a pvp piercer you can't expect tanks who use it to farm in tank suits.

conjuration*

also...

Originally Posted by Glitchless

In spite of all you have said, we do not think pierce, nor this weapon in particular, warrant any buffs at this time.

shouldn't this have ended the topic?

[Lakki]

I was calling it Conjooration as a joke lol. considering the fact that the conjuration spear makes every other LG piercer negligible and seemingly insignificant, the other ones really need a buff X_X would talk more about slashing but, this isn't the right thread for it. there is almost no reason to even use the other piercers! demonblood ranseur is supposed to be good for PVE, but it has a mediocre proc. Providence could be used, but replaced with Conjuration, Purity could be used but replaced with conjuration. lol theres pretty much no reason for the other piercers because of conjuration. when you look at whips, there is so much variety and versatility such as LoD's helkok's, vamp whip, and the boulder one. thats 4 good LG whips. you look at piercing and only ONE lg piercer is pretty much used, just conjuration -.- so YES the other LG piercers need a buff, and some of the skills may need a buff too >.> the topic shouldn't end here

[marzus]

Hello!

Getting back with some arguments about healing from attacks and how they work on piercing. I take piercing and crushing for comparison.
If you go ask the question: " Hey, if you have a 10% vamp would you rather use this ranseur or this cudgel? " They will probably do some calculus in their head: that plus that divided by that... oh ! They have the same dps, I'll use either of them, the vamp will be the same too. Yes, correct. The dps is the same, the vamp should be the same.

We know that vamp is all about max damage, you can only vamp from your max. Now let's apply some skills to both curshers and piercers. First we apply the crush spec skill which increases the max damage of crushing sources by 25%, due to the rule above vamp goes up by 25% as well. Pierce spec increases the min damage of piercing sources by 40%, due to the rule above vamp stays the same. Let's get to classes now, If you are to go for crushing it is wise to go as warrior, you get a 15% increase in max damage, thus a 15% increase in vamp. Of course, even if I am a piercing user I can still go for warrior class and increase my vamp by 15% too but how wise would that be? The best is to take the rogue class which increases your min damage by 30% and again the vamp stays the same.

An aftermath of this would result in an over 40% increase in vamp for crushing and no increase in vamp for piercing.

Bump for puncture and demonblood ranseur rework, too.

[devil]

With regards to that your are just talking about maximum vamps, going for a piercer will give much more minimum damage which would also boost your minimum vamps.

[marzus]

I would say that there is a reason why Hemorrhage doubles bloodlets for 2h piercers.
I've simply asked around how much damage does a 2h cursher. The end damage of both cursher and piercing is close. By applying the logic presented by you ( which I found it very accurate) there is no need for double bloodlets. But halving the bloodlets will decrease the end damage of piercing making their damage no near crushing's.

Even though the dps is the same, in the end a rework of hemorrhage to give double bloodlets to 2h piercers was needed in order for their damage to pair up with crushing's.

[marzus]

It would be cool if ideas here are to be taken in consideration alongside with the "pierce related" thread ideas. Word was that after timmy nerf traditional tanks would be more used, so piercers can use their puncture skill. The ignore mitigation puncture skill is still not that much as many would think ( as you know flesheaters have 100% chance of ignoring miti compared to 25% or 35% chance for a puncture ).

[Blaze]

Traditional tanks did become more common tbf last team arena several tanks went no regen and got healers. But that doesn't work in 1v1 so back to regen for them <.<

[marzus]

Leaving this badboy here.



Extra:
The tier 1 and 2 of this one here (a screenie from nodtools.net) :

[Blaze]

Originally Posted by King

do many use ac pots? all the top people i was fighting last season was miti or stone i think.

well. i can tell how much the game has changed in recent months lulz. :{ maybe 1 out of 4 used stone/miti this season

[Ambergreenthefirst]

I did not read much of this thread.... though I do want to say puncture would be nice if it also make fading shield and shield size occasionally occur based on bloodlet dmg to make up for the lack of vamp on wep dmg. and Idea I had a while ago.