Range/Melee/Pet Haste bonuses stack question

[Atropos]

Glitchy, how do attack speed bonuses such as Range/Melee/Pet Haste bonuses stack? Are they multiplicative or do they just summarize? I mean bonuses such as for example the haste bonus from Quiver and speed bonus from Swift arrow rune or Regulus/Aliangel BP ...

[Glitchless]

The stacking is cumulative without any loss of effectiveness. It would best be described as multiplicative, and to find the factor by which you multiply you do this:
100 / (100 + Percent Bonus)
So a 100% haste bonus is 100 / (100+100) or a .5 multiplier of your original delay. You can repeat the process with all your haste bonuses on the resulting delay, order will not affect it.

[Atropos]

Clear to me now, thank You for explaning the mechanics !

[Hooker]

i do not get this at all. i have melee haste r2 and get 6% bonus, sharpen steel r2 and get 5% bonus, and quicksteel r5+++ and get 10% bonus. do you just add the % all together? so i would get a 21% bonus to melee haste? or is each individual one taken and then added together? like for melee haste r2 100/(100+6) and then repeat for the others.

[Lurkee]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

You can repeat the process with all your haste bonuses on the resulting delay

hooker,
maybe do the math as described and it will make sense

[Hooker]

clearly you dont get what "i do not get this at all" means.

for me nod math is confusing i cant do it myself. hence why i am asking. i did not read close enough to see that he said it repeats since i had my own questions with the beginning part of his post. go troll some where else

[Lurkee]

no, i think i do
it means "help me do something that has already been explained to me, but im too lazy to do it."
you can't possibly be too stupid to take glitchless's formula and plug in the numbers

[Hooker]

ya actually i am too stupid

[Hooker]

ok i did the math and got 2.804 you seem to know it what do i do with that? or is that the 21%?

[Lurkee]

show your work

[Hooker]

(100/(100+6))+(100/(100+5))+(100/(100+10)=2.804

[Lurkee]

don't add them, multiply them
(100/(100+6))*(100/(100+5))*(100/(100+10) = .8168
then multiply that number by your original delay to get your new delay
ie original delay of 30, 30 * .8168 = 24.5

if you wanted to figure out what that ends up being if it were one single haste buff you do
100/(100+x) = .8168 and solve for x
100 = 81.68 + .8168x
x = 22.4

so 6%, 5%, and 10% haste actually end up being more than the 21% haste that one might approximate if they just added them. you could also get the number by doing 1.05 * 1.06 * 1.10

[Hooker]

thank you for the help

[Lurkee]

we can be frenz nao

[Hooker]

sure

[flipynifty]

Lmfao

[Zan]

Bump for questioning:

With penalties such as 25% per whip, is the multiplier given to mod the delay (100 + Penalty)/100?

And with two whips or whip+shield do I compute each extra delay separately or add them together and then apply the mod?

EDIT: well that cant be the formula.. or a 50% penalty would mean x1.5 the delay.. but I understand the game sees a 50% penalty as double delay.. would love if someone could point out the direction.

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Glitchless

The stacking is cumulative without any loss of effectiveness. It would best be described as multiplicative, and to find the factor by which you multiply you do this:
100 / (100 + Percent Bonus)
So a 100% haste bonus is 100 / (100+100) or a .5 multiplier of your original delay. You can repeat the process with all your haste bonuses on the resulting delay, order will not affect it.

It's the same formula as in the quote above, but you're subtracting.
100 / (100 - 50) is 2. ie a 50% penalty to speed means your attacks take twice as long.

[Zan]

Thanks for answering.

I do believe, however, that this brings a problem with "stalking" skill. I'll try to be clear in explaining:

I assume the damage multiplier is linear with the skill lvl, so
xDAMAGE = 1 + SS/100, capping at 2 with skill 100

And the delay, by the formula you gave me:
xDELAY = 1/(1-0.4*SS/100), capping at 40% delay at skill 100 (xDELAY = 1,6667)

So the final formula to apply to the previous DPS would be
DPS * (xDAMAGE/xDELAY), which caps at 20% more damage.

However,
(xDAMAGE/xDELAY) = (1+SS/100) / ( 1/(1-0.4*SS/100) )
is non-linear and has its peak at skill 75, with 22,5% extra damage.

Where "SS" stands for Stalking Skill

Either the xDAMAGE linear assumption is wrong or there is an issue with the way its calculated.

[Glitchless]

That's an interesting find, worthy of a TC reward.
Though this doesn't necessarily need a "fix", since PvPers may want the higher burst, we decided to make the delay curve logarithmic. The result is an initial minor loss in DPS when you first train the skill that is regained as you surpass level 25. Here is the resulting DPS mods for whip users:
0.9696
0.962300087
0.958639507
0.9568
0.956085145
0.956141635
0.956761844
0.957811948
0.9592
0.960859783
0.962741859
0.964808248
0.967029082
0.969380423
0.971842766
0.9744
0.977038657
0.97974736
0.98251641
0.985337474
0.988203336
0.991107711
0.994045089
0.997010618
1
1.003009417
1.006035457
1.009075066
1.012125496
1.01518427
1.018249147
1.021318096
1.024389267
1.027460978
1.030531692
1.0336
1.036664613
1.039724347
1.042778111
1.045824902
1.048863793
1.051893928
1.054914516
1.057924824
1.060924172
1.063911929
1.066887509
1.069850369
1.0728
1.075735931
1.078657723
1.081564965
1.084457275
1.087334296
1.090195694
1.093041158
1.095870397
1.09868314
1.10147913
1.104258132
1.107019921
1.10976429
1.112491044
1.1152
1.117890989
1.12056385
1.123218435
1.125854604
1.128472227
1.131071182
1.133651356
1.136212641
1.138754941
1.141278161
1.143782217
1.146267029
1.148732521
1.151178626
1.15360528
1.156012422
1.1584
1.160767962
1.163116262
1.165444858
1.16775371
1.170042784
1.172312047
1.17456147
1.176791026
1.179000693
1.18119045
1.183360278
1.185510161
1.187640086
1.189750041
1.191840017
1.193910005
1.195960001
1.19799
1.2